AI hype

Peter

If one more AI crap in a magazin, on the internet or in a game show up I will explode!

I'm not talking about human-coded AI like pathfinding, battle behaviour, etc. I'm talking about ChatGPT and AIs like that.

How do you think about implementing ChatGPT into your game or producing images with ChatGPT? Do you love it? Hate it? Yet undecided/indifferent?

mdtrooper

Well, I translate a "saying spanish": The science/technology is not bad or good, the good or bad is the use of science/technology, for example nuclear bomb or x-ray photos in medicine (broken bones and this things).

The problem of IA is the rich people who wants to need less or none other people like me and maybe you.

And another point it is the training the neural networks that spends a lot of electric power such as criptocoins....the training remembers me to "Brute-force search" or brute-force algorithms.

But there is a big pile of shit about the IA......but the IA there are a lot good examples (but as free software I think there is none):

Maybe the last year a reddit user with the game Dwarf Fortress and the procedual descriptions of monster and dwarfs generated the images of these.
Kenta Cho are testing the generated sprites and something with the IA.
Rafa Laguna is a spanish teacher of dev games and he stream a lot content about free software and Godot. And he sometimes use the image IA generator to trick or avoid the copyrights traps.

Modanung

Indeed it is no deus ex machina.

Modanung

I used it to upscale two rendered icons (of Tux! and A-Mazing Urho) but the assets it produces "from scratch" almost exclusively amount to contemporary kitsch in my opinion. The results are getting nicer, but Meshy's showcase still leaves me a little neauseatingly mind-bent... like a bit of bad trip woven into every piece.

Rated soulless and off-putting.

glitchapp

Modanung There is one thing that tools such as stable diffusion and similar A.I. grahics generators have not achieved yet: Consistency. One reason for that is that those tools have "no memory" and no way to relate one creation to another, that skill remains to date a human only skill.

There is a way around that limitation: You can create conditioned images not just with prompts but also with images, this way you can get consistent results. All you need is a sketch / image source to be improved.

It is also important to avoid having more than one object on the source image.

The images on this site speak for themselves: https://hothardware.com/news/doom-guy-neural-network

Modanung

If it starts 3D-printing food... be sure to check the bottom before taking a bite.

TPW

We won't use AI tools.

As video game developers we regard video games as a form of art; every piece - OST, Soundtrack, Sprites, Writing - is a fragment of the artwork, and should be charged with meaning. For this reason, we try to make as much as possible by ourself; we usually don't use stock or commissioned art done by others, let alone this deus-ex-machina shit.

Peter

TPW let alone this deus-ex-machina shit.

Amen!

glitchapp

TPW

TPW We won't use AI tools

Who won't use AI tools? you and Peter? Good for you!

TPW As video game developers

I'm a game developer too!

TPW we regard video games as a form of art

Me too!

TPW every piece - OST, Soundtrack, Sprites, Writing - is a fragment of the artwork, and should be charged with meaning.

I agree!

TPW For this reason, we try to make as much as possible by ourself;

Wrong reason! Doing things by yourself does not necessarily charge any artwork with more meaning, if you do it wrong it could even be a disaster!

TPW we usually don't use stock or commissioned art done by others

That is interesting! I like self and handcrafted games and art as much as I do works done by several people but usually you won't get very far if you do everything alone, specially if the project is too big, but do whatever you feel like

TPW let alone this deus-ex-machina shit.

I try hard to understand what makes people get so emotional when talking about A.I., it sounds to me like using A.I. as a tool for enhancing and being productive even if you do it on open source software is the root of all evil!!!

Take it easy, it is just a tool!

Modanung

It is rare to use every function a tool provides, and with all of them it is possible to create crap. But where would we be without RNG?

Modanung

One problem with pre-existing art is that you're looking for a needle in a haystack, mostly because of style constraints. When a project sticks to photorealism, this instead demands technical quality, as there is less leeway for artistic freedom.

With any other style however, assets that do not match aesthetically will clash. Sometimes this can be overcome with a little retouching/filters, but where this does not suffice I think there might be a place for AI: Not to create art from scratch, but to understand it enough to refurbish it. Not to make art, but to salvage it.

Modanung

Another example, for which tools exist but where AI may assist, is the generation of things like normal maps to match existing diffuse textures. Insane Bump may do a decent job in many cases, but it can certainly be improved.
If you're basing textures off photographs, modeling or drawing the displacement often is no reasonable option. Basically the only alternative you have to create fitting normal maps in such a case is 3D scanning or photogrammetry, both of which require investing in hardware to make them possible/feasible.

Similar tasks would include optimal seamless tiling and the creation of other textures for things like occlusion, roughness and metallicity. Again, things that are already commonly done with automated tools, which can be improved.

TPW

glitchapp Who won't use AI tools? you and Peter? Good for you!

While this account is used by one person, ThunderPerfectWitchcraft is a duo consisting of a programmer and a gfx-artist :).

glitchapp Wrong reason! Doing things by yourself does not necessarily charge any artwork with more meaning, if you do it wrong it could even be a disaster!

I disagree! It is my conviction that even a catastrophic piece of creativity carries a creative meaning.

glitchapp I try hard to understand what makes people get so emotional when talking about A.I., it sounds to me like using A.I. as a tool for enhancing and being productive even if you do it on open source software is the root of all evil!!!

Take it easy, it is just a tool!

While I'm overall a rather emotional person, I don't have any deep feelings regarding A.I.. Still, I absolutely reject it, for the effects it might have on society, nature, and art. Your argument that AI is merely a tool that might be used in this or that way is factually right on the logical layer, but you could also apply it on the automatic loom (that really turned the situation worse for those who protested against it, since social progress wouldn't keep up) or the atomic bomb alike.

Yet, atomic bombs, automatic looms and the AI are here. We have to deal with them - and we (as TPW) decided to carry out resistance by emphasizing human creativity.

glitchapp

TPW not using AI for good purposes won't stop the use of AI for the bad ones. Although the topic of the social impact and impact on human rights A.I. will have in the future would probably not fit on this forum, not using it for video games or art won't change anything. If you care about the dangers and problems that A.I. would bring about, I believe you want the cutting edge advances on the field of A.I. to be lead by open source and not for profit... which is not easy at all...

A.I. won't stop, but in regards to what this forum is about, it can release the full potential of open source software on many levels: from graphics, code , productivity and much more.

Whether you take advantage of that or not won't probably make any difference on the problems suggested above... the best that could happen is that something at the same level of performance of chatGPT, stable diffusion and any other A.I. tools become reality as an open source and free available software with enough efficiency to run on any modern computer without internet.

Peter

I have to admit that AI is not completely bad. But I don't like it. And yes, it is a emotional reaction. AI is used too much now, by too many people, often for stupid purposes.

TPW

glitchapp not using AI for good purposes won't stop the use of AI for the bad ones.

Accepting AI and AI art will empower the bad ones further. Using Open Source software won't stop the tech corps either, and being pacifist won't stop wars. Neitherless I'm consequent about all these things. If I think a thing is, in sum, bad, I shun it. Thats what "staying true to yourself" means for me.

I don't reject you over your way of handling things, but I believe it might lead to cynicism if you aren't careful about it. And your changes of doing good art with the AI are, in my regard, smaller than with my approach; the few artists I encountered so far who had success in using AI-Tech for serious art had only success by breaking it through an additonal prism (Daniel Lopatin comes to mind).

glitchapp

TPW

TPW And your changes of doing good art with the AI are, in my regard, smaller than with my approach

I challenge you to an art duel: choose the topic you want, we publish the results here and we let people decide which is best.

TPW Using Open Source software won't stop the tech corps either

but doing better open source software by releasing its potential with A.I. would maybe put some open source software into a more competitive place.

poVoq

glitchapp AI art only counts in the duel if you use an open model and run it on your own PC 😝

The topic will be "People holding hands" 😅

TPW

glitchapp I challenge you to an art duel: choose the topic you want, we publish the results here and we let people decide which is best.

I'm a hobbyist artist, actually working on a crpg. I won't stop in my ways to prove a thing to you, but if you wish: check my portfolio, and try to make a game that is better than the ones I did - I wish you all the best attempting it ;). I don't care about the tools or software you use, if you can't post it here since your way of handling things doesn't allow you to release it as free software, just send me a mail.

glitchapp but doing better open source software by releasing its potential with A.I. would maybe put some open source software into a more competitive place.

If it is true that FLOSS is more effective, we shouldn't lend this power to problematic software.

poVoq The topic will be "People holding hands" 😅

Dont worry - all participants here are gentle-people ;).

glitchapp

poVoq that's not possible I'm afraid, I don't know any open model that performs as good as the closed ones... and my graphic card would probably not be able to hanbdle it... I wish there is one.

glitchapp

poVoq The topic will be "People holding hands"

here you are:
🤣

TPW

glitchapp