Gamerzilla

poVoq

I guess I could put up an instance on a freegamedev.net subdomain again if it is easy to setup and run via php.

dulsi

You're welcome to run it if you like. I plan on running it on identicalsoftware.com and allowing other people to register. There is no admin interface yet. You can require approval for new accounts but can't easily see who is and isn't approved. User management is really half-baked.

dulsi

Game launchers have been a bust for Gamerzilla. Most don't even display achievements so they don't see any reason for it. I decided to go with a gnome shell extension. It doesn't help windows and I'm not sure if KDE supports it but it should be usable for many distros. Plan right now is to get gamerzillagobj in Fedora. Then I'll get the extension in the distro and on the gnome shell extensions site. I'll still need to get gamerzillagobj/libgamerzilla into Debian/Ubuntu/OpenSuse to make it easy to use there.

Wuzzy

I never really understood the appeal of programs like this. It's not hard to implement achievements in your game, so what's the point? Another conceptual problem with this is that this is kind of a "standardization" of games which I don't like. It limits what games can be.

This idea is obviously copied from Steam but I think not every idea from the proprietary world is worth copying.

Anyway. As for the program.

And the screenshots look kind of ... ugly? It looks too technical and not visually appealing, kind of disappointing tbh. You're not going to attract users with ugly screenshots like that.

Also, I agree that .NET is a bad idea. .NET is not really great for FOSS. To be able to use .NET programs, you need Mono, and Mono sucks. The problem with .NET is basically that the official Microsoft implementation has more features than the specification, so Mono is kinda doomed to suck. Classic EEE bullshit. .NET might be technically compatible with free software, but it still sucks. FOSS programs should generally shy away from .NET.

Modanung

Wuzzy I believe the concept of achievements gained popularity through consoles, where they are linked to your account used to play all games. Personally, I never thought much of it and would consider it very low priority when developing a game. @dulsi's efforts do make me consider adding achievements though... but not .NET.
An open source standard is exactly what you'd need for something like this to work. I don't see how it would "limit what games can be". My main objection arises when developers add too many trivial meta-goals and useless egg hunts while considering them a requirement for completing the game, turning it into a chore.

dulsi

Wuzzy Yes the preferences screen is ugly. I'm focusing on getting it to a usable state at the moment. It's look doesn't really matter much as you would only set it once and never go back into it. The part you would look at is the web site with your achievements. (Eventually I'd like a way to look at local achievements for those who don't want to post them online but again that is a longer term goal.)

The original .NET now often referred as .NET Framework was closed source and Mono tried to duplicate the functionality. The current .NET (formerly .NET Core) is an open source project under MIT license. Microsoft includes linux support because they sell linux support on Azure.

That being said. The gamerzilla web interface I'm running on identicalsoftware.com uses php not .net. It is a relatively simple interface and could be quickly implemented in any language. Still need to update the web site to mention that the .net repo also includes the php version.

Whether you like achievements or not some players really enjoy them. We can give them an open source alternative or we can lose them. Additionally if we have an open source system maybe we can convince the smaller game stores that they can't compete with Steam and need to compete differently thus freeing user data from corporate control.

Achievements are also a marketing tool. If you go to a friend's house, you can't see their games collection because many people purchase digital copies. You can generally see your friend's achievements. You might find something of interest you didn't know about or see he has lots of achievements in a game and rethink your earlier dismissal of the game. This is your digital bookshelf.

Wuzzy

I remain skeptical about .NET because of its history. The stench of Mono won't go away that easily. Installation of any Mono-based software has always been a small nightmare.

I have nothing against achievements as such, I just don't see the need for sharing.

I think the biggest challenge with this system is that it needs some kind of central server that runs for all eternity. Without the server, your achivements are gone, right? But to be fair, my understanding of the system is low.

Anyway. Are there any notable FOSS games in Gamerzilla yet?

poVoq

Wuzzy obvious use-case for a blockchain then 😏

My main gripe with achievements is that they are IMHO part (but not the worst of) a whole bunch of dark patterns from the gambling industry that target people vulnerable to addictions. Achievements seem relatively harmless by themselves, but a certain type of person with mental preposition for it (FOMO etc.) will be inclined to grind for them, which I find rather manipulative.

dulsi

Wuzzy You don't need a central server. You need a server for your achievements. You could run your own server or use one from a distro or a random site like identicalsoftware.com. Right now Gamerzilla has no friends functionality. Your achievements are publicly visible or not. Eventually I'd like it to have federated friendship so you can restrict access to friends.

There are several games that already had achievements. For example Super Tux Kart has achievements. I've updated many to support Gamerzilla. To my knowledge only games I've modified have Gamerzilla support at the moment. You can see my achievements at:
https://identicalsoftware.com/trophy/games/dulsi

(Yes it requires javascript. My original goal was to help learn .net and react. When I implemented the php backend, I just reused the react frontend.)

Modanung

Certainly true. Some might wither away working on those chores I don't bother myself with. But that's the industry standard. No need to follow a bad example. ;)

In my opinion they should be a bit like medals: Not "survived tutorial". Too trivial ones can bury the more impressive/meaningful achievements. Also, it might be nice to allow achievements to be tiered, overriding it when a greater achievement is reached with the same condition type.

Wouldn't it be nice for instance if you got achievements in STK for completing all story mode challenges on a certain difficulty? Showing only the most significant.

Modanung

dulsi For example Super Tux Kart has achievements.

Right, I'm only one short of having achieved them all! So that uses Gamerzilla.

dulsi

Modanung Gamerzilla is an optional dependency. It had an achievement system already. Gamerzilla just allows it to upload that information. I should check to see if SuperTuxKart on Fedora is built with Gamerzilla support.

Modanung

dulsi Ah... well, nice.
I think heXon would suit itself quite well for having some achievements. Like for:

Defeating the Baphomech [Slayer]
Superbly wielding the Chaosphere [Chaos Magician]
Directly hitting five stationary Notyous using Chaomines [The Tower]
Not picking up any hearts before the Baphomech appears [Start the Dance]
Destroying an enemy with bullets before picking up an apple [Archer]
Qualifify for all achievements in a single flight [Master of the Universe]

Something like that.

dulsi

As I was interviewing for a python position, I decided to code a python version of the Gamerzilla web interface. It just implements the web api. The frontend is still javascript with react. The python implementation is not complete yet.

I also started implementing a test suite for the web api. I know the .net version fails the test case at the moment. I haven't tried the php version with it yet.

dulsi

My gamerzilla instance is now open to registration:

https://identicalsoftware.com/trophy/

New users must be approved before they can do anything. I'll try to check regularly to approve users. Feel free to message me if I don't. The user accounts stores basically nothing. It does not store your email address and has no forgotten password functionality at the moment. Accounts do start as not visible. You have the option to make it visible to others.

Fedora users have the easiest option for trying it out. They can install the shell extension with:

dnf install gnome-shell-extension-gamerzilla gnome-extensions enable gamerzilla@gamerzilla.identicalsoftware.com

Afterward they can go to preferences for the shell extension and enter the web site, username, and password. I've proposed an article for Fedora Magazine for a more complete explanation.

dulsi

Article for Fedora Magazine is now available.
https://fedoramagazine.org/share-your-game-achievements-with-gamerzilla/

glitchapp

dulsi is there any tutorial on how to implement it in love2d? I only see c libraries but not sure how to add them?

dulsi

I have not done a tutorial for it. I did do it for a few games, Marvellous Inc and BYTEPATH. I could probably write that up. Not sure when.

glitchapp

sounds great, I'm interested and I may implement it to some games eventually...

TPW

Implemented it in Acid Flight, a SDL2 game made with C++.
https://thunderperfectwitchcraft.itch.io/acid-flight
No biggie to bake it, went rather smooth. Can't install the support for the online server on my system though, but it stores the achievements correctly in the /save/ folder, so I guess it should work.

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