What about Doom?

Technopeasant

2.5D games are simply easier to make levels for, although yes the Quake community is something of an exception. It is part of the reason I am making the level format in my 3D engine use a 2.5D map, although that is also to limit load since everything is immediate mode and through a runtime right now.

And I will be that guy, and say that Blood was the pinnacle of 2.5D first-person shooters. 😉

Modanung

Technopeasant I'm the guy that says there's no such thing as first-person 2.5D (certainly not when there's stairs involved) and would call Blood pseudo-3D. To me pinball, cue sports and things like the Oddworld remake are examples of 2.5D games.
And of course heXon! But not the first two installments of GTA.

EDIT: Okay, technically pinball tends to be first-person. But I know what I mean.
Can it get away with 2D physics despite having 3D graphics, and no obstructed view?

Technopeasant

For me personally, what keeps me perpetually playing '90s shooters is the shareware structure of levels and episodes. I do not really enjoy playing games for more than 15-20 minutes a go, which is about the time it takes to win a level of a Doom or Build engine shooter. Most of the non-shooters I have played, such as Hocus Pocus and the original Duke Nukem, are similarly structured that way. I also like having quicksaving as an option, rather than checkpoints, but I am okay if the levels are short. I would not mind suggestions for non-FPS games with similar characteristics. I mean, that and I just admire the custom content for games like Doom, Quake, Wolfenstein 3D, Blood and Duke Nukem 3D.

Technopeasant

2.5D can indeed apply to gameplay rather than graphics. Arguably something like Trine or Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project are principally 2D in play, despite using what would be considered a true 3D engine.

Meanwhile, in Doom you can't freelook around the environment and in Wolfenstein 3D everything is essentially like playing a top-down tile map game.

Modanung

Technopeasant 2.5D exactly applies to both gameplay (2D) and graphics (3D). There's no such thing as 2.5D graphics (that would be pseudo-3D) or 2.5D gameplay.

And quite generally I don't think first-person counts as 2D gameplay, no matter the trickery of the implementation. 2D gameplay needs things like fog-of-way or disappearing walls to hide things from the player. 3D Maze is not 2.5D Maze.

The term 2.5D discerns 3D platformers from "regular" platformers with 3D graphics.

Technopeasant

Modanung

Technopeasant Indeed there is no shortage of people misapplying the term 2.5D.
Duke Nukem very much has 3D gameplay, since I remember standing on top of that box.

There is no such thing as 2.5D graphics.

Peter

There is 2.5 dimensions graphics.

Modanung

Peter Do you mean pseudo-3D or wish to remain ignorant?

Modanung

If we're going to stretch the definition into its antonym then I would argue that effectively all games are 2.5D. Most 3D graphics games rely on 2D textures, often even as sprites for things like particles. This then becomes a 2.5D game. 2D games with a parallax background - or even simply drawn perspective - have the illusion of depth; hence they are also 2.5D. Let's suppose you're correct, then the term has no meaning for - without anything falling outside the definition - it does not discern.

Technopeasant

It definitely seems to be the currently used vernacular.

For what it is worth, I recall the term pseduo-3D being used for this more commonly back in the 2000s, and don't mind the ideal of using that for graphics and 2.5D for gameplay.

Modanung

Indeed there is no shortage of people misapplying the term 2.5D

Technopeasant There also is no such thing as 2.5D gameplay. 🤦

`2D gameplay + 3D graphics = 2.5D game`

Peter

@Modanung Thanks for the insult. And, yes, pseudo-3D seems a good term.

For example, in an MMORPG there was the floor in (more or less) 3D and buildings and PCs upright on it. No real 3D but not 2D either.

Modanung

Peter Sorry, didn't mean to insult; merely voice some frustration. Also life.

Since graphics are a collage, I'm inclined to stick the label per graphics element. With for instance scaled camera-facing sprites being a pseudo-3D element commonly used in 3D games. But I think having particle effects doesn't turn games pseudo-3D.

TPW

I heard very good things about this DOOM-Mod tonight.
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/134292-myhousewad/

Based on a GZDoom-Mod; even though the license of the assets is unclear, it is FLOSS if you go with Stallmans definition.

Technopeasant

I mean, how well would it run through Freedoom?

TPW

Technopeasant I cant tell. Afaik you need GZDoom, but I might err here.

Modanung

Anyone ever heard of Hedon Bloodrite? It uses a modified GZDoom. The assets are nonlibre, but still seemed relevant enough to be worth mentioning in this topic.

poVoq

Modanung I played Hedon Bloodrite a bit, but it feels a bit too antiquated for my taste.

I am much more excited about Selaco, an upcoming game that also uses the GZdoom engine. See a trailer here.

This Youtube video also has some nice upcoming Doom based games.

Modanung

poVoq Looks cool, but excitement is for libre games. ;)

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